If God Doesn’t Change His Mind, Can Prayers Work?
It is an age old question: If God knows everything, has perfectly planned every thing from the very beginning, predestined everything, why does He want us to pray? Isn’t prayer useless if the outcome is predestined?
The Presbyterian Church has a doctrine of predestination. Everything is predestined – everything. Then comes double predestination, even triple. “He knew you would pray, so He had already planned for the cure”.
Similarly, “God cannot lie – He defines truth.” So when he tells a prophet (such as Isaiah) that something would happen (such as Hezekiah “will surely die” of his present illness) or Jonah when he is told the city will be destroyed. Hezekiah lived and the city was preserved, both as a result of prayer. (I’ll get into the details below).
I once had someone tell me this:
“To say that God genuinely changes His mind is to say that He learns something. That calls into question either His omniscience or His logic in how He approaches a situation. “
True enough. However, there is some indication in Genesis that God creates progressively and at least *appears* to learn as He goes in some situations. “And God saw that it was good.”
I also agree that God knows all things, past, present, and future. Just the same, I lean toward the opinion that God does change His mind, however rarely He does it. “Nothing is impossible to God” applies to whether He changes His mind also. After all, He is a living God, and I don’t believe that He is constrained from making changes (or to continue creating) “as we go.”
I believe that we (Christians and many others) agree that God is Sovereign and that He can do anything He wants to do. Whatever He chooses to do is good, because the Sovereign God defines good through His laws and actions.
That means to me that we have to acknowledge that He can change His mind should He want to do so, based solely on His Sovereignty. As his subjects, we cannot deny our creator what He chooses to do or not do simply because the scriptures are not clear. What I am trying to say is that we cannot box him in by scripture. He won’t stand for it.
Lots of things like that go on in various discussion groups and atheiests use similar arguments against any belief of God.
Why I am interested:
I became interested in this due to my “Clear Warning” detailed in one of my earliest posts. I prayed and immediately the pall of impending death was lifted. Did God change His mind? I dared ask that question in the light of the warning, the following truck incident, and the sudden change that was a clear answer to my prayer.
I believe all visions and all discernments about God come from God and nowhere else. If we believe the Bible is inspired (as I do) then I also believe that visions and discernments must have scriptural basis. Yes, there are discrepancies between accounts (some say errors) in the Bible, and it was written by mortals. We don’t have to believe every story or every word in order to trust the Bible when it comes to the message it brings us. It is the best we have. The message is important and it is God’s message. We can trust it as true.
Having said that, let me take you to Isaiah and Hezekiah.
Hezekiah’s Illness:
1 In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, “This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover.”
Hezekah’s prayer:
2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD, 3 “Remember, LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes.” And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
God’s Answer:
4 Then the word of the LORD came to Isaiah: 5 “Go and tell Hezekiah, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will add fifteen years to your life. 6 And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city.” Isaiah 38:1-6
We can’t get much clearer than this! It is reported in three books of the bible (starting at 2 Chronicles 32:24, 2 Kings 20:1, and Isaiah 38:1). In addition, since prophets never make mistakes (and live), but God never changes His mind, Hezekiah asked for a sign. It was an unmistakable miraculous sign.
God gave him a choice of which way he would move the sun – forward or backward and Hezekiah chose to have time reversed. Also reported in 3 books of the Bible and seen all across the land.
Notice that Hezekiah did not ask for healing. He accepted that God’s word was final. He merely asked God to remember his good deeds. Even before Isaiah could get out of the courtyard, God sent him back to give Hezekiah the news. This prayer was entirely in acceptance of God’s will, as all prayers should be.
Ok, which do you think is more credible: a) God lied when he told Isaiah that Hezekiah would die? b) Isaiah made it up? c) God changed his mind? Does c) imply a)?
First of all God does not lie, as He defines truth. I believe that. If the first statement to Isaiah was that Hezekiah would die, then that was his destiny, the reality, and the truth. When God changed his mind, he made a new reality and a new truth and a new destiny that affected millions of the descendants of his people. Both were true and the only thing that happened was that God heard a prayer that was within His will and acted on it.
Next, if Isaiah had made it up (or was mistaken) then we can’t explain the sun going backward as a result of the sign from God. Without the sign, we could think that Isaiah could have been mistaken but remember – in those days prophets that made mistakes were considered false prophets and were stoned. Prophets did not become trusted prophets for the king if they made mistakes. Does c) imply a)? No. I think God changed His mind by changing the path of the world. Hezekiah later had more children. There are descendants in this world that would not have lived without this change and other destinies changed forever as a result also.
God had a plan and a predestined path for Hezekiah that included his death due to that illness. When God changed his mind, he created a new path for the world, a new reality that was just as valid and just as true as the first path.
It is clear to me that God changed his mind and thus there is good reason for prayer.
Let’s now change over to Jonah. We all remember the whale incident, but the story is not about the whale, but about God wanting Jonah to deliver a message:
1 Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time: 2 “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you.” (…)
4 …”Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned.” Jonah 3:1-2, 4
How did the Ninevites respond?
5 The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
6 When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. 7 Then he issued a proclamation in Nineveh:
“By the decree of the king and his nobles:
Do not let any man or beast, herd or flock, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. 9 Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”
How did God Respond?
10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened. Jonah 3:5-10
Once again a clear message from God of death and destruction was overturned by God changing His mind as a result of prayer within His will. The Ninevites believed God and simply repented and changed their ways. God listened. A truth and a path, a destiny foretold that became a new truth, a new path and a new destiny.
So pray. Pray no matter how despirate the situation seems to be. God is still at work today, believe me. When you pray, pray within God’s will. My prayer was simple:
“God, my Father in heaven, if it is your will that I die, I am ready to go. If it is your will that I live, I believe I can help bring others to you through our church. I will do good work for you.”
It wasn’t like I was giving Him a choice or barganing with God. I simply stated that I was willing to take or do anything he asked. Total submission to His will. I’m still trying to get it right.
Oldtimer
Ordinary People - Extraordinary Visions 
See, this is how we can know that this book was written by men, not God. The God this bood describes seems to have all the failings of men. He gets so angry that he kills almost everyone on earth, he changes his mind, he has situational ethics, he repents, he becomes sorry for things he has done, he supposedly approves of polygamy and slavery and even rape and genocide.
It is as plain as the nose on our faces that this book came from men, and some of them not very good men, but not from God. I think God would be upset that we are accusing him of writing this book.
When you guys realize this, then this book becomes clear and easy to understand, because you can see and understand the errors, contradictions and the misygonistic ideas.
Hmmm. Do you have a better book to recommend? I see a God of peace and grace. A gentle God, A loving God, A powerful and Sovereign God. A God I can trust and one that I’m willing to submit to in all situations.
The creator of all things has some right and authority to destroy his creation and the creatures within it for whatever reason he chooses. But that is not what you are complaining about. Not his right, but the book, I believe.
You wish to discredit the whole book because it does not fit your ideals of what God should do or how he should act, whether he should punish or reward his people. I don’t think any of us have any authority to say how God should act or behave. None at all. And the book is the best we have, handed down through history as His word. I’m going to keep it, and respect your right to disrespect it and Him.
Grace and Peace,
Oldtimer
Re: TESTIMONY
(NOTE from Oldtimer – I’ve edited this comment to make it more readable w/o changing the words or meanings. However one area marked “snipped”, I’ve removed a long section that pertained to the wounds and hospital actions which were not related to this vision). Everything remaining is George Mlay’s comment)
I had multiple gunshots in the abdomen and on my right thigh on June 22nd 2006 around 11:45pm, of which one bullet is still lodged in my right knee (lower femur).
(snipped – edited to remove a lot of hospital and gory stuff – Oldtimer).
I was hospitalized for 13 days, for I was discharged on July 5th 2006.
On June 29th 2006 I had an out of body experience and a dreadful, horrendous vision around 8:00pm. Doctors and visitors were visiting me just like any other day asking about my developments and the like, daily routine questions.
Then all of a sudden a powerful vision came from nowhere, out of the blue I saw the whole world burning in front of my eyes to ashes, and I was disappearing with it, burning in it, dying in it. The entire world was at war and was reduced to ashes, it was like a globe where I could see the whole world at once at the apocalypse of a nuclear disaster. There was nothing left except for a huge pile of ashes. Nothing survived no buildings no humans, and there was one final blast and the entire world was unbelievably gone. And I smelt death the odor of sulfur.
I was terrorized by this powerful vision, the kind of terror I have never experienced in my life. This horrendous vision disappeared as abruptly as it had come, and I was surprised that the world was still here and I was not dead.
Then in a twinkling of an eye I was enveloped in darkness again, but this time the darkness came with great inner peace. I was so relieved and felt very light, [feather-light] it was as if somebody had lifted the whole world off my back. I was floating in the air of darkness with total inner peace. Then somewhere in the horizon of the darkness, I heard a clear audible voice which said “I am God and I will show you a sign. The doctors will bring in an electrocardiograph machine, and the first test will indicate that you are having a heart attack, they will do second test and you will be as perfectly as normal.” And that’s exactly what happened next.
The doctors rushed out to get the ECG machine. They did the first test and unbelievably no pulse was found. They were panic-stricken thinking I was dying. I could see panic in their eyes and panic on the face of my friend Sia Prosper who was also visiting me at the time. They did a second test and my pulse was perfectly normal Everyone was asking me what was the matter? But I could not respond to them for I was busy talking and responding to this voice. It was as if they (doctor’s) were talking to a stone, for i was only paying attention to the voice. And amidst the darkness there was a small green light dot moving in circles.
Now the voice came again and said “ See, now do you believe me”? I was shocked by the miracle just performed and amazed beyond reach for it was far more convincing beyond reasonable doubt, and yet strangely enough I never said yes or no to the voice, I just said “I do believe the Bible”
Then I tested God for the first time and said “ If you are God what are the names of everyone here in this room” The voice mentioned every doctors name and there was a female nurse whose name tag was reversed so I flipped her name tag to check if the name I was given by the voice was correct. I was totally thrown off balance with such accuracy of her name. The nurse later on admitted to me that there was some kind of supernatural powers going on, for they were mystified with the first test of the ECG machine when no pulse was found. The voice also mentioned my friends name Sia Prosper, he was the only one without a name tag.
I tested God for the second time. I said “If you are God, let me move everybody in this room without touching or telling them”, and that’s exactly what happened next. Then the debate resumed like four five times and yet I still stood firm with my final answer that I believed in the Bible. But yet strangely deep down at the bottom of my heart and at the center of my spirit soul I believed the voice 100% as truth and yet one part of made me to stick with the Bible answer for that’s the only thing I was sure of the word of God.
I had no means of checking that voice out so the only tool was to lean on the word, for the word became flesh which is Jesus Christ, the eternal ultimate expression of God. In John 1:18 the Bible says “No one has seen God at anytime.” Also in John 6:46 Jesus Himself said” No one has seen the Father except He who is from God; has seen the Father.” Hence I was in a dilemma to give a yes or no answer but deep in my heart I knew it was God.
Then the voice seemed very very frustrated with my final answer-the Bible, and once again I was enveloped in total blackness. This time the blackness was totally darker than before and there was complete silence like the original silence. I could see nothing but total blackness like ten minutes I wasn’t existing it was just absolute total blackness. I stopped breathing and I was dead.
Then the blackness faded a little bit, and I could now breath again back to life, and the silence was broken with the same voice which now said “This day you will be in Heaven and the doctors down there, won’t be able to figure out what happened, and your death will remain a mystery to them”. As my spirit was hovering above the horizon, I could see my own body and the doctor’s down there trying to figure out what’s going on. Instantaneously in a split-second I said “No I am waiting for my Mom who is now in Africa for she is coming to visit me here in the United States”.
And that’s how I got back. But one strange thing about the voice, was that it was absolutely crystal-clear. I have never heard a voice with such clarity in my life, its clarity was as if it was being spoken from my inner ear, but it was actually coming from above. And amazingly enough the voice was so humble and gentle, down to earth neither proud nor arrogant but meek in tone, soothing and pleading to the soul.
Now that I am back in my human nature I sometimes wonder whether and as to why I denied God’s choices. And sometimes I wonder why would God tell me in advance that I will be in Heaven instead of just taking me right away. And sometimes I wonder whether He does not break his own rules by snatching our choice (free-will) which He gave us when He created us. For deep down at the center of my spirit-soul I strongly believe that He allowed my request and choice for coming back to the world. I sometimes regret why I chose this fallen world over Heaven.
However I am glad for I have found my purpose. And that purpose is to have undoubted faith in God and a personal relationship with Him, and bringing others to Christ. When the voice announced “I am God” there was absolute power in the room and indescribable peace. But one thing I do know for sure is I will carefully read and listen to the Bible and become increasingly aware of my sins. I can pray and I can plead with God and beg for his mercy and for some understanding of what I am reading. And I can pray for Him to make me more obedient to his law book the Bible.
I will become increasingly aware that the words of the Bible are God’s voice speaking directly to me. And I must patiently wait upon the mercy of God. Just like we are told in Lamentations 3:26 “It is good that one should hope and wait quietly for the Salvation of the Lord.”
In the Bible, conversion is represented as a miraculous, life-transforming process- a process that is impossible without the direct, active intervention and participation of God. In fact, He initiates the conversion process. He first opens the minds of those He is calling, or inviting, to conversion so they can begin to understand the scriptures with a clarity and depth they could never attain on their own. This wonderful, miraculous process usually begins when the individuals God is calling hear, or read the truth of God accurately explained from His true servants.
Our Creator begins to open their minds at that time to comprehend the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. God’s word now begins to make sense to them. Just as a picture emerges when the pieces of a puzzle are fitted together, so those whom God is inviting to be converted begin to understand the Holy Scriptures.
This is a miracle of God’s calling. Although He clearly encourages human beings to “choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19), God does not force anyone to make the right choice. But as we shall soon see, the consequences of our choices are enormous. Many a people have asked me if they ever caught that boy who shot me, I honestly tell them that I have forgiven him and I am praying for his salvation. And I will always try to bear 3 things in my mind which are1: Believing 2: Repenting 3:Obedience.
When I stood firm with my final answer, that I do believe in the Bible, that answer was insufficient to God. I had faith in the Bible but I lacked saving faith, [Abraham’s Faith] the kind of faith that saves. It was okay to believe His book, but He wanted me to extend and stretch my faith further and believe in Him Himself. But I doubted God. Inside my heart, I knew it was Him but for some reason couldn’t say it, for I was dumbfounded and speechless with amazement. To believe in the Bible and to know God are two different things.
Likewise to believe in the Bible and to obey the Bible are two different aspects. But to obey the Bible and to apply saving faith expressed in the Bible is to know God Himself. We need faith because it is the only way to please God. Listen to Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please Him”. For many people believe in the Bible, but do not obey its commandments[teaching]. We need faith because it is the channel through which we receive His[God] blessings.
Many human attitudes such as love, joy peace, patience, kindness, humility, courage and mercy can be somewhat worked by our own effort. But faith occurs when we cease doing something from our own efforts, and trust someone else to do it for us. Faith is the one attitude that is exactly the opposite of trusting ourselves. Apparently this is why God decided that faith would be the attitude of heart by which we could obtain Salvation, that it might be according to grace, that is, that it might be an entirely free gift of God, not dependent on any merit of our own.
I am so grateful to God for I reported back to work 3 months later on October 2nd 2006. At first I learned how to walk with a walker, then I graduated to a walking cane. I limped for 10 months, but as of May 2007 I had no limp at all in my gait. Its as if nothing happened to me. Its like a dream, only for the remaining evident scars which are always covered in clothing. Praise the Lord.
SO THE ANSWER IS YES GOD CAN CHANGE HIS MIND BUT HE IS INCAPABLE OF TELLING A LIE. LIKE YOU CAN SEE I FAILED THE QUIZ OF FAITH AND I DIED, BUT HE LET ME LIVE FOR HE LOOKED INTO MY HEART AND HE KNEW I KNEW HIM BUT IN MY INTELLECT I COULDN’T SAY YES OR NO TO HIM. AND THE BIBLE IS GOD BREATHED DESPITE OF SOME LITTLE TRANSLATION DISCREPANCIES.
GOD BREATHED ON ONLY TWO THINGS FIRST ON ADAM NOSTRILS SECOND ON THE BIBLE..
i am athiest know for more than 20 years i belive in GOD but, know i am a free man noooooo more slavery to any one and life is so sweet in freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Freedom always comes at a price.
If you believe in God, then perhaps athiesm is not the correct term for you. Apparently you believe in God but don’t accept organized religion. There are lots of people like that. The God I know loves you as much as me.
Do you believe in a creator God, the one who created the entire world and indeed the universe? He exists and is the only God there is. If you believe in the Creator God, then you believe in the same God that I do. There aren’t any others.
You should give organized religion a second chance. Maybe you did not have a good experience with the ones you first tried. There are many advantages to being a part of an organized religion. Christians (and other religions as well) tend to help each other out of tight spots and help each other through bad situations as well as good ones. Don’t miss out.
All Christians believe in God, the Creator but each denomination has different rituals and emphesis on services and different approaches to salvation.
Some preach mostly salvation and being saved (hell and damnation), while others preach love and grace and others different types of services. It is still the same God but maybe you need to find a different denomination to worship the God you believe in. One you find comfort in.
Grace and Peace,
Oldtimer
Dear Sir,
My question is: If a Pastor stands up in the pulpit and tells the people that God has showed him that we are not to borrow money for the paving of the parking lot that we are to raise the money and then a few weeks later he stands up and tells us that the board got together and agreed that we need to borrow the money to pave the parking lot, WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT? Myself, I can not see God telling one thing and then turning around and doing something else.
Am I wrong?
please respond
Mike
Mike,
I would never say that God did not tell that pastor not to borrow money if that is what he understood God to say. It is very likely that God did tell him that. God is alive and well and still talking to us. But He is pretty patient with us.
However, in many denominations, the church is not run by the pastor, so if the board votes to override the pastor (and God’s admonition) then the pastor has a couple of choices: either resign or tell the congregation that the board made a different decision, which seems to be the case here.
The board probably made the decision based on what they knew about the church finances and the need for the parking. They did not step out in faith and believe that God will provide.
I know for a fact that sometimes stepping out is what God tells us to do and when we obey, He does provide.
This is not a case where God is telling one thing and then turning around and doing something else as you imply. This is a case of God telling the pastor one thing and then the church board deciding to do something else. A lack of faith on their part, not God changing His mind.
It is not an example of God changing His mind, which He seems to do occasionally (but rarely), and when He does it is always after a show of faith by his subjects through prayer within His will.
God does appear to change His mind after listening to prayer within His will, but I don’t think the case you outlined is one of them. This is God telling the pastor one thing and the board, not God, deciding to do something else, as often we are prone to do.
Oldtimer
For Zolo – I have an excellent book for you to read:
“I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist” Written by: Norman L Geisler & Frank Turek
For Oldtimer: Perhaps you van help, will a born again Christian who turns his back on God still be able to go to heaven, As God promise eternal life to those who accepts Jesus. Will God in this case go back on his word ?
I don’t think God ever turns his back on His children. The only sin that I know of that is “deadly” is blasphany to the Holy Spirit.
I think that Jesus explained that nothing can turn the Father away from His child. He still loves us, just as we love our own misbehaving children. When it comes down to it, we say, yes, he sinned, but he is my child and I still love him. In the long run, our children can do no wrong.
Sometimes I wonder if there is any sin that we recognize that is also a sin in God’s eyes. We are on such a lower level than He. I know He gave us some commandments but are there any that He did not expect us to break? That He did not *know* we would break?
So, no, I think that God would not go back on His word and the born again Christian will go to heaven as promised. At least that is my interpretation. Jesus is the judge, not I, and he may have a different opinion. I really can’t speak for him.
On the other hand, I am a born again Christian, but there is nothing in me that would make me believe that I can just do anything I want to do and I would be safe from judgement. On a personal level, I do the best I can and know that God is not going to expect more than He gave me ability for.
I want to be as close to the throne as I can get, not just sitting on the outskirts hanging on the edge of heaven. I have a looooong way to go.
Oldtimer
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Thanks a bunch all-timers for removing the gory hospital stuff, i should have known better. But i have a question, and i know you are not God but God works through other people, so you might help me with my question. My question is that, when i am alone in private i sometimes wonder if that voice was of the Devil trying to trick me that he was God. Because you know the devil can transform to an angel of light. But can the devil really pretend and announce that ” I AM GOD AND I WILL SHOW YOU A SIGN”??? Can he use God’s name??? And also when the voice said “THIS DAY YOU WILL BE IN HEAVEN” Could that have been the wrong Heaven[Hell] had i accepted the offer??? of which i did not. And if that was the devil, why would he show me a vision of Armaggedon???? may be to trick me??? i dont know. But what i know before being shot on 6/22/2006, i had a terrible fatal car accident in march 24th 2006, the car i was driving was totally wrecked 90% totalled but i got out amazingly unharmed without a single tiniest scratch on my body. Since that day i decided not to sin anymore and i was born again. To flashback the incident, i used to be a party animal and went to the clubs daily and engaged in debauchery. That night of march 23rd 2006 i went to the club and picked up a prostitute and slept with her all night long. I drove her back to her place the following day around noon[broad daylight] march 24th 2006. As i was driving back to my place after dropping her, now being alone in the car, i somehow mysteriously slept behind the wheel[not drunk], and was awoke with a loud big-bang. The police report said i ran a red light and hit the other car. And thats true, i didnt know what happened, for i woke up after the crash seeing police officers all around taking measures. And i was amazed as i walked out of my car unharmed. Now like i said i vowed not to engage in sexual immorality anymore and i stayed clean until the day i got shot on June 22nd 2006. I was clean for 3 months. Do you think that was God’s means of taking me to Heaven for my OBEDIENCE of repentance from sexual immorality????? I have been asking myself did God speak to me on June 29th 2006 at the hospital because i was obedient???? For i only know that God spoke only to people in the Biblical times like Moses or Abraham, thats why i was perplexed to say yes or no to the voice. But in John 9:31 the Bible says God does not hear sinners. Do you think He spoke to me because i was clean for sexual impurity???? But i think it is because of grace and not of my works. But to be honest i am 99% sure that was God but i am not 100% sure. All i know is i am back to life, and the devil cometh not but to steal, kill, and destroy. So if that was God that means i denied Heaven, and i have to prove worthy why i chose to come back to this fallen world. And if that was the devil then i turned victorious.But i never used scripture on him like Jesus did on the mountain. But i dont know Brother all-timers help me out with your insight. I know its a hard question but just answer me i want to know even if the answer sounds silly just tell me what you think. Thanking you in advance, i remain loyal.
Hello George.
The devil is always trying to deceive. But in this case I think he is trying to cast doubt on God’s Grace to you in sparing you. The devel wants to pull you back from being good.
God is good and God is grace, and the devil is the opposite of that. If God is light, then the the devil is darkness. All the power is in the light. He really has no power over you unless you let him.
God, on the other hand, has infinate power should He choose to use it. But Grace is a useful tool and we need to always be thankful when we receive it.
It is my opinion that God doesn’t need to do any testing, as He knows the outcome. The devil, on the other hand is always trying, and he has no insight as to the outcome so he keeps trying.
Forget him, ignore him and stick with what you know is the right thing to do.
None of my visions actually involved the devil, so I don’t know anything about him other than what is in the bible, but I think if you were saved, it was God’s work because it sounds like the devil already had you in his grip at one time, and there was no reason for the devil to keep you from joining him. Now you are no longer in the devil’s camp and he is simply testing to see if he can get you back.
Forget about him and only look toward the light, meaning toward God and be thankful, not doubtful, do good work as best you can and push any doubts away, as only the devil deals in doubts.
It is also my experience and belief that visions that come from God always serve Him and may serve as warnings or insights to us, but are not really tests, for He is all forgiving. I’ve said no in a vision and received Grace anyway, forgiven. Visions also always have some basis in the Bible (by that I mean it is at least not contrary to the Bible) for that is the best Word we have available to us.
I’m certain that God knows we are not like Him so we are always falling down on our promises and our good intentions and making mistakes in our life and he knows that is our nature, the way He made us – imperfect. So He gives us Grace, and He forgives.
So do the best you can whenever you can.
Grace and Peace,
Oldtimer
Wow praise the Lord.
Old timer you have just queched my thirst, i was so relieved with your answer and i now believe 100% like you said the devil is always trying to deceive and to cast doubt on God’s grace from sparing my life. I am also glad to hear that you once said no to a vision and still received grace and forgiveness. No pastor or priest have been able to clarify my question like you did, so crystal clear. Like you said that was God’s grace, and grace is a useful tool and we need to be thankful when we receive it. Like you said in your own opinion God does not need to test us as He knows the outcome. That is really true because in James 1:13 the Bible says Let no one say when he is tempted, “i am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt no one. Many scriptures reveal that God sometimes sends trials as a means of testing(see for example, Genesis 22:1, Deut. 8:2, 2 chronicles 32:31) but James emphatically declares that God’s perfect holiness puts Him beyond the reach of temptation and that He does not solicit to sin. Old timer you have really opened my insight for i was blind but now i can see. For as you can see in my vision it was only blackness and total blackness. And like you said God is Light and the devil is darkness, now i can see that God gave me the answer to say no. Because the Bible in 1 corinthians 10:13 there is a way out. “God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you cant stand up against it. When you are tempted, He will show you a way out so that you will not give into it” Because like you can see in my testimony when i said “I believe in the Bible” the voice became so frustrated with that answer. And so when it went on to another level of promising to be in Heaven, now i believe thats when God intervened(intercepted) and gave me the answer to say no. For i never even thought about it, i just said no instantly without thinking.
And once again thank you for your advice to forget about the devil and focus on the light[God] and not focusing on doubts. And i believe if God wanted to make His existence known to every person on earth, God would not hide. However the direct presence of God would inevitably overwhelm our freedom, with sight replacing FAITH. God wants instead a different kind of knowledge, a personal knowledge that requires a commitment from the one who seeks to know Him. The modern world honors intelligence, good looks, confidence, and sophistication. God, apparently does not. To accomplish His work God often relies on simple, uneducated people who dont know any better than to trust Him, and through them wonders happen. The least gifted person can become a master in prayer, because prayer requires an intense desire to spend time with God. Once again thank you very much.
God does NOT change his mind. Make no mistake, for it is absurd, blasphemy, to imagine that He had not planned it quite correctly. I imagine God had only ONE dilemma… how to enjoy eternal existence all by Himself. If YOU are happy can you imagine being so without reference to ANY other cause save that you ARE? There HAS to be interaction. No one is happy just because…all by himself…for no particular reason. Therefore we Hindus say that He created everything in the universe for His entertainment. Except that ‘things” dont really exist as solids…but as energy!! We Hindus call it Lila…the Play(s) of God which He “stages” for His own Divine entertainment, (a classic case of not letting the right hand know what the left is doing, for there can be no other explanantion, (as ALL Life is dependent on Him) of which (I imagine) that He stages in an infinite number of other universes, not jus our own. In fact He “enjoys” His Creation through every single living creature and down to every single atom in the universe(s). ..through every movement of a leaf, through every thing of Beauty (Yes He IS Beauty and Love) Atom being forms of Energy, Energy is God, God is Light. Science almost ascribes to photons the power to THINK!!! just imagine!!! and not be detectatble just when scientists are trying to OBSERVE its behaviour in certain conditions. What better “proof” can there be that God IS Light??? I cant think of one!! Can you???
Hi,
Interesting topic.
I ve always believed that God Changes his orders
though I ve never put it plainly that he changes his mind. I now do. When the bible say God is the same…. He never changes, it does not mean in the context of mind (Thinking) It is rather in the context of His being. If God thinks then thinking does change. So God does change his mind.
On a second thought what is the meaning of Numbers 23:19 could not be more clear, “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?” No, God does not change His mind. These verses assert that God is unchanging, and unchangeable. what do you think oldtimer
If we assume that Balaam (a somewhat wicked gentile prophet) has truly encountered God and is giving a true account to Balak, then I see that Balaam is simply saying in Numbers 23:19 that you cannot compare God’s ways to man’s ways. He is saying that God is not like man who is prone to lie, nor like the son of man who is prone to change His mind all the time simply to gain advantage.
There are a number of places in the bible where God relents and others where He regrets something He has done. These are indicators to me that He is a loving and forgiving God that does change His mind (sometimes relents) and also that He is not micromanaging our future nor the outcomes of His initial choices (sometimes regrets).
I believe that the passages I cite are clear. They imply to me that God changed His mind for purely Holy reasons (answer to prayer within His will), not like man’s wishy-washy ways. God changed His mind in answer to prayer within His will, not like man who does it purely for perceived advantage.
I believe that when we pray within God’s will, the scripture says that God hears our prayers and if He so chooses to change a path already chosen for us, it is due to His grace and not our choice, but His. He may correct our destiny through the creation of a new future path in keeping with what God chooses to do.
When it comes down to listening to the prayers of His subjects, He sometimes changes the path He has already laid out. That to me is equivalent to His changing His mind. That is what I call the Grace of God.
God is indeed unchanging and unchangeable! The part that I see as unchanging and unchangeable includes His grace and His mercy and His willingness to correct paths laid down if it suits His Holy purposes.
Grace and Peace,
Oldtimer
Hi, I had adream in 1989. In this dream, we were in a classroom and somebody came in and called our names. Three of us were called as we stood up.
The person calling the names told us that he wanted us to enter into the kingdom of heaven. I said yes, but i asked that man to let me finish my high school education first.
After that, i have been dreaming many things which then turn out happen exactly the way they appeared to me in the dreams.
i got saved in 1995 and since then God has been ministering to me in dreams and at times a word of wisdom.
What can i do to nurture this rare gift that God has bestowed on me? and what effect has the response i gave way back in 1989? Is God ready to use me now that i am through with my high school?
Please, guys help me out.
this was very good and helpful
No one is wrong or right.We live in a world of balance;whether you perceive it or not.Isn’t it
wonderful how all are allowed to express & be
validated.Only a loving,lighted,all powerful
All merciful God can offer such a magnificent
existence.To have a personal relationship
with Jesus Christ;be transformed in His light
one experiences heaven on earth.I bless the universe,I bless you all!Receive love,light & peace.Merle
God’s will is another whole topic to discuss sometime. I would be interested in what you have to say, I have heard and read so many different things over the years.
I was motivated by George Mlay’s story. Please link me to him if its possible so that I get to hear more from him. I love to hear stories of faith in today’s world. I shows that God has not stopped talking to us despite our sins today. Be blessed and may those who do not believe think twice about their purpose according to the will of God as in Genesis. I love you guys.
I sent you a link by email.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
Same same wanted my email. My email is brilliant67@yahoo.com
I’m available anytime 24/7 to share the Good news especially in these last days where it seems obviously God has abandoned The United States of America. May Jesus bless you.
I don’t claim to know the mind of God, but I don’t think He has abandoned us at all. Too many in our nation have abandoned Him.
I believe in God and there’s nothing can change my belief. But I strongly believe that God do changes his mind.After praying so long for something I heard Him saying ‘YES’ and I was thrilled. But lately I have a feeling that God has changed his minds. I still pray and that’s not gonna change. Even though sometimes I feel like He dissapoints me.
Well i think God do change his minds. I strongly believe in Him and nothing’s gonna make me change my belief. I have prayed for something for a very long time, changed my attitude, spent more time with Him, started to live a clean life, I changed my old silly ways. I admitted the Lord as my saviour. I prayed and still pray for all my sins. One day I was praying for this thing I’ve had been praying for, for many years. I heard Him saying “YES”. I was so thrilled but carried on praying and thanking Him. But honestly I think God has changed His minds about that and that upsets me. Having said all that though I am still gonna believe in Him.
We all agree that God is all-knowing, all-powerful and infinite (no past, no present, no future). But will prayer change His mind? The best prayer is the Lord’s prayer. Take note: “your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven”. That is how,He said, we should pray. Prayer is a way to communicate with God, it builds an intimate relationship with Him. It is a form of closeness and unity between Him and us. a prayer is an “Act of Faith”. It basically acknowledges that you believe in Him, that you put your trust in Him and that you have faith that He knows what’s best for you. Do keep in mind that we are here, not for our own personal gratification but to bring glory to God. That being said, when you pray to request something, that’s only a request. If it is not the will of the Lord, no matter how hard you pray, it’s just not going to happen. For example, cancer patients and their family prays so hard to get healed, sometimes God listens sometimes not. Either way, it makes an impact on people’s lives. If the person gets healed, maybe because he is meant to do something moreto his life. if not, people will often say that “God didn’t hear my prayer”. It’s not really the case. Humans, no matter how intelligent, how inspired you are, are bound to limited reasoning. We can and will never understand how God works. Our mind is not equipped to know. We can change our actions but not the consequences of our actions. God answers prayers according to His Will, no matter what we think it is.
I don’t believe God changes His mind. The Bible is written by inspired saints and followers. THe bible instructs you on how to live a God-centered life. He points out, if you do this this will happen. If you don’t do this, this will happen. He gave us warnings and lessons. We all have our own free will, so it is up to us to be guided and obey His commandments with the help of the Holy Spirit. He wants to know if you will do things for Him whole-heartedly. THis is when we pray, “Lord, help me, guide me to fulfill Your will, use me for your glory, in Jesus’ name we ask, Amen”
For Oldtimer:
I’ve been a born again Christan for about 24 years now. I’ve been trying to discern what God’s will is for my life. I have heard a prophecy from one person that said they see me starting a church, from another that I will start churches, schools, hospitals, and mission centers. Over the past 8 years I’ve been living overseas teaching English and have had the opportunity to start and run my own English school for 4 of those years and then to start and run a small Christian homeschool for my daughter and a few other kids. 7 of these 8 years have been spent in Japan. My family and I returned to Japan because I felt that the Lord wanted me to go back and do something for the kids at the church we had attended before we left for Brazil. I wasn’t even thinking about returning to Japan quite honestly. I was happy to be in Brazil. But that feeling kept coming up. And after praying about it, and my wife’s father planning to remarry her mother in Japan, we decided to return. So, we figured that while we were in Japan providing education for the kids at the church that we might as well open it up to other kids, as well, and essentially starting a Christian school (this was something that had been on the back burner for about 5 years at this point, anyways). (I think we might’ve overstepped our bounds by starting the school.) Anyways, that’s what we did. And after 2 years of doing it it hasn’t really gone anywhere. Our time here has been tough at times, but rewarding too. There has been grace during this time, though. And without it we would’ve had to have left, or done something different. I now believe that it is time for my family and I to return to the States. Back in September 2011 we started discussing a possible move back to the U.S. Both my wife and I have been praying about it quite a bit because it’s a big move. During the course of that time, it seemed that the Lord confirmed His desire for us to return through 3 different Christians. Unwittingly, one of them asked my wife if she wanted to go back to the U.S., another asked when I was going back to Seattle (my hometown), and the last one (a pastor) during the course of a conversation said things like “when you go back in March (referring to my hometown)” and talked about how there is more support there for ministry work (i.e. training missionaries, starting churches, etc) and that we could train and send people from there, that it is a multiethnic city… things like that. My wife and I witnessed the first 2 together, and she was caught off guard by what the people said because they said them at a time when we were seeking the Lord on this and asking Him to confirm. The 3rd, it was just me with the pastor. But I shared with my wife later.
I believe those confirmations came from the Lord. But my wife has at times, when they come up, looked at them with doubt or suspicion, thinking that maybe Satan was possibly using these born again Christians to confuse us. I don’t buy into that.
My wife and I have not been able to come to an agreement on this. I believe that it is time for us to move on, and that He does have work (i.e discipleship training, homeschool, cell church, etc) for us to do in the States. But my wife sees us remaining in Japan continuing on as English teachers for the foreseeable future. She also thinks that the work we came here to do… that’s it. I don’t think she sees anything beyond that. So, she in not willing to defer to me on this and trust that the Lord is directing me. We are at a stalemate… and have been for 5 months now.
Is is possible for a vision from God to change? Am I hearing/seeing wrong? Or is it that we just see one piece of the vision at a time and think that it’s the whole thing? So, God’s not changing His mind, just revealing to us one step at a time, right?